Seeking: H/* where they get caught

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Hi, group

I've been reading a lot of fic and so far, in every story everyone keeps their gay liasons safely under wraps. Which is cool, no section 8's, etc. But I'm wondering:

Is there any fic where Hawkeye/someone get caught as a couple, or in flagrante delicto? I'll also take Radar/Klinger. Or, hell, anyone if it's well written.

Thanks, all!

Hey, btw, don't forget, there's open episode discussion threads over at 4077th_watch. No, I'm not pimping, I just hang out there and there's no one to talk to! I'm lonely!

Comments

[mirai-gohan.livejournal.com]

I kinda wanna write something like this now. I'm hopping around Wikipedia trying to get my facts straight on how gays in the military were treated circa the 1950s and exactly how the DSM worded the 'homosexuality' entry way back when. As if I don't do enough reading on random stuff as it is.

Mostly, I'd be interested in seeing someone threatening Hawk with either a general or dishonourable discharge, depending on how he got caught, and having him talk with Sidney. Hm.

[mijmeraar.livejournal.com]

The S1 episode 'George' may give you something to work with. A homosexual soldier comes into camp and the Right Wingers were very, very bothered by it.

[aura218.livejournal.com]

I love Margaret's response: "That sweet boy?" Like now he's a slavering wolf man. But youcould tell she was questioning her preconceptions, just a little, as Margaret tends to do.

[mirai-gohan.livejournal.com]

Yep, one of my favourite episodes. It doesn't make too many references to the legal ramifications in the military, though; it's more a soapbox about why there's nothing wrong with the situation. Or that there shouldn't be, anyway. Because, seriously, who's gonna listen to Frank's opinion on anything?

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Wiki section 8. It would be a dishonorable discharge, and it would follow them for the rest of their lives. They wouldn't be able to get a job anywhere else, at least not in mainstream society....

The way I see it, you could take it two ways. Either they play their typical shell game and get out of it, or, they ride off into the sunset into some truly alternative lifestyle.

Gay people did live their lives back then. A lot of them just dropped out. I did some archive work at a museum, and I found a disporportionate number of "roommates" and "close friends" going off into the bush in Africa or Australia together to do academic work or relief efforts. The archivists I worked with said it was common for the gay educated types to just get a grant and go study things away from everyone else and live happily ever after, give or take a dystentary outbreak.

[mirai-gohan.livejournal.com]

Actually, the more I read about it, the more it looks like it wouldn't right-out be a section 8. If they were caught in the act, it would be, and yeah, it'd be a dishonourable discharge. But it seems like (and I'm having trouble finding info on anything between 1947 and the 1990s) if he was only alleged to be gay, or if he came out and there was no proof he'd been acting on it during his stint in the military, it would be a general discharge. Basically, they'd let him out, he'd get to go home, and it would neither be honourable nor dishonourable.

That actually doesn't surprise me about the "roommates". It's a lot the same way today, actually. I'm not a gender studies major or anything, but GLBT history is something I read up on and hear about through random friends (comes with being a part of the GLBT community, I guess), so it'd actually be really interesting to do the research to write a fic like this. Now I'm REALLY thinking about it.

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Read the bottom of the "Blue Discharge" article. After 47, it was an "undesirable" discharge. Not the same as a dishonorable discharge, but not a general discharge.

"A general discharge was considered to be under honorable conditions – which is distinct from an "honorable discharge" – and an undesirable discharge was under conditions other than honorable – which, again, is distinct from a "dishonorable discharge".[1] At the same time, however, the Army changed its regulations to ensure that gay and lesbian service members would not qualify for general discharges.[28] Under this system, a service member found to be homosexual but not to have committed any homosexual acts while in-service would receive an undesirable discharge. Those who were found guilty of engaging in homosexual conduct were dishonorably discharged."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_discharge#Aftermath

I am a lesbian, and while I didn't study gay history in school, I have done a lot of reading. I <3 history and I love the stories of people who existed between the lines. The blog Gay for Today (http://gayfortoday.blogspot.com/) has brief biographies of gay people throughout history, some really interesting stories there.

BTW, you heard that David O Stiers came out a few years ago? Really cool, Charles-like interview here: http://www.gossip-boy.com/DOS.html

[mirai-gohan.livejournal.com]

Ah, thank you! I must have just misread that article last night. Or else mis-remembered it after I read it. Thanks for the blog link, btw! I'll have to read through that when I have more time.

And thanks for the interview link, too. I hadn't heard that, but it actually doesn't surprise me. Makes me very happy, too!

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Me too. :D It's so cool all these older folks are coming out. The mom from Family Ties, Lily Tomlin (love her!), George Takei. They lived through the bad times and now they're having their day, and they earned it.

I'm intregued by this story you're dreaming up. :D