Seeking: H/* where they get caught

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Hi, group

I've been reading a lot of fic and so far, in every story everyone keeps their gay liasons safely under wraps. Which is cool, no section 8's, etc. But I'm wondering:

Is there any fic where Hawkeye/someone get caught as a couple, or in flagrante delicto? I'll also take Radar/Klinger. Or, hell, anyone if it's well written.

Thanks, all!

Hey, btw, don't forget, there's open episode discussion threads over at 4077th_watch. No, I'm not pimping, I just hang out there and there's no one to talk to! I'm lonely!

Comments

[xcacophony.livejournal.com]

I have two but the original sites they were on no longer exist so I could email the .html files of them (one smart thing with MASH fic is to save the fics, because they tend to come and go..)

[aura218.livejournal.com]

I havebeen saving fics, things seem to come and go so strangely here.

It'd be super sweet if you don't mind emailing them. My email is nardo218 at yahoo dot com. Thanks so much!

[xcacophony.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the delay. No good very bad day over here.

Will be emailing you in a sec!

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Ooops, just got this. Disregard last. :)

[catmadbookworm.livejournal.com]

If (n)ettiquette allows I'd also be very keen to read these. It has occurred to me in the past that the boys always seem to get away with their relationships or that people turn a blind eye. Thanks

[aura218.livejournal.com]

If the OP doesn't feel like it, then i'll volunteer to track down the authors and ask if they'd like to repost.

[xcacophony.livejournal.com]

if you could pass me your email, I could send you the .html files of the ones I have saved.

[greenjelloforst.livejournal.com]

if you're still checking this, i'd love if you could send those stories my way :) email's alec494@aol.com

[mirai-gohan.livejournal.com]

I kinda wanna write something like this now. I'm hopping around Wikipedia trying to get my facts straight on how gays in the military were treated circa the 1950s and exactly how the DSM worded the 'homosexuality' entry way back when. As if I don't do enough reading on random stuff as it is.

Mostly, I'd be interested in seeing someone threatening Hawk with either a general or dishonourable discharge, depending on how he got caught, and having him talk with Sidney. Hm.

[mijmeraar.livejournal.com]

The S1 episode 'George' may give you something to work with. A homosexual soldier comes into camp and the Right Wingers were very, very bothered by it.

[aura218.livejournal.com]

I love Margaret's response: "That sweet boy?" Like now he's a slavering wolf man. But youcould tell she was questioning her preconceptions, just a little, as Margaret tends to do.

[mirai-gohan.livejournal.com]

Yep, one of my favourite episodes. It doesn't make too many references to the legal ramifications in the military, though; it's more a soapbox about why there's nothing wrong with the situation. Or that there shouldn't be, anyway. Because, seriously, who's gonna listen to Frank's opinion on anything?

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Wiki section 8. It would be a dishonorable discharge, and it would follow them for the rest of their lives. They wouldn't be able to get a job anywhere else, at least not in mainstream society....

The way I see it, you could take it two ways. Either they play their typical shell game and get out of it, or, they ride off into the sunset into some truly alternative lifestyle.

Gay people did live their lives back then. A lot of them just dropped out. I did some archive work at a museum, and I found a disporportionate number of "roommates" and "close friends" going off into the bush in Africa or Australia together to do academic work or relief efforts. The archivists I worked with said it was common for the gay educated types to just get a grant and go study things away from everyone else and live happily ever after, give or take a dystentary outbreak.

[mirai-gohan.livejournal.com]

Actually, the more I read about it, the more it looks like it wouldn't right-out be a section 8. If they were caught in the act, it would be, and yeah, it'd be a dishonourable discharge. But it seems like (and I'm having trouble finding info on anything between 1947 and the 1990s) if he was only alleged to be gay, or if he came out and there was no proof he'd been acting on it during his stint in the military, it would be a general discharge. Basically, they'd let him out, he'd get to go home, and it would neither be honourable nor dishonourable.

That actually doesn't surprise me about the "roommates". It's a lot the same way today, actually. I'm not a gender studies major or anything, but GLBT history is something I read up on and hear about through random friends (comes with being a part of the GLBT community, I guess), so it'd actually be really interesting to do the research to write a fic like this. Now I'm REALLY thinking about it.

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Read the bottom of the "Blue Discharge" article. After 47, it was an "undesirable" discharge. Not the same as a dishonorable discharge, but not a general discharge.

"A general discharge was considered to be under honorable conditions – which is distinct from an "honorable discharge" – and an undesirable discharge was under conditions other than honorable – which, again, is distinct from a "dishonorable discharge".[1] At the same time, however, the Army changed its regulations to ensure that gay and lesbian service members would not qualify for general discharges.[28] Under this system, a service member found to be homosexual but not to have committed any homosexual acts while in-service would receive an undesirable discharge. Those who were found guilty of engaging in homosexual conduct were dishonorably discharged."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_discharge#Aftermath

I am a lesbian, and while I didn't study gay history in school, I have done a lot of reading. I <3 history and I love the stories of people who existed between the lines. The blog Gay for Today (http://gayfortoday.blogspot.com/) has brief biographies of gay people throughout history, some really interesting stories there.

BTW, you heard that David O Stiers came out a few years ago? Really cool, Charles-like interview here: http://www.gossip-boy.com/DOS.html

[mirai-gohan.livejournal.com]

Ah, thank you! I must have just misread that article last night. Or else mis-remembered it after I read it. Thanks for the blog link, btw! I'll have to read through that when I have more time.

And thanks for the interview link, too. I hadn't heard that, but it actually doesn't surprise me. Makes me very happy, too!

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Me too. :D It's so cool all these older folks are coming out. The mom from Family Ties, Lily Tomlin (love her!), George Takei. They lived through the bad times and now they're having their day, and they earned it.

I'm intregued by this story you're dreaming up. :D

[mijmeraar.livejournal.com]

None of my favourite stories are in this vein, but I have a couple of old things that I wrote that, well. They are discovered, but they aren't confronted, so they might not be what you're after at all, just thought I'd give it a try.

They're both BJ/Hawkeye, this ficlet (http://community.livejournal.com/fanfic100/1608948.html) is Erin's POV and this one (http://community.livejournal.com/mash_slash/100692.html) is Radar's POV, and mostly centers on Radar's unrequited feelings for Hawkeye.

Sorry couldn't be of more help.

[aura218.livejournal.com]

These sound cool, thanks. :D

[skew-whiff.livejournal.com]

The only one I can remember off the top of my head is Very Important Perverts (http://community.livejournal.com/mash_slash/229404.html), though I think by mentioning it fits the theme I've kind of spoiled the punchline. Never mind, it's still a fun little story.

Oh, and now I'm thinking about it, there's also Just A Peek (http://tvjunkie1013.livejournal.com/12464.html) (part 2 (http://tvjunkie1013.livejournal.com/12756.html)), which isn't exactly what you specified, but comes pretty close. Edit: re-reading it, I remembered incorrectly; they do get caught in the act in the second half.


Neither of them actually deal with the potential repercussions of getting caught, though - I haven't actually come across many stories at all which really address the attitudes of the times with more than a passing mention.

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'll read those tonite.

[aura218.livejournal.com]

VIP was pretty well crack, but I liked it. :) I really liked Just a Peek, for what it was. Radar was cute and part two was especially sweet.

[macadamanaity.livejournal.com]

I wrote one YEARS ago that isn't my favourite, but fits the bill:

Wager (http://macadamanaity.livejournal.com/323.html).

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Cool, thanks. will check out. :D

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Link says I'm not authorised to read this post...

[macadamanaity.livejournal.com]

Whoops. Must have flocked it in 'things I wrote when I was a student'-shame. Undone now.

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Thanks. :) Will read it tonight.

[underthenameof.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I can't say I know of any fics where they get caught in flagrante, but I do know of a couple where people figure it out (usually Sidney and Radar) and one or two post-war fics that deal with 1950s attitudes to homosexuality. I can dig the links out for you if you'd like?

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's the themes I'm looking for. Reactions, historic context, etc. Those sound great, I'd really appreciate it. :D

[underthenameof.livejournal.com]

No worries, gives me an excuse to go back and reread them XD Here you go:

I May Know the Word (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mash-slash/message/1047) - Radar sees a little more than most people do.
Yellow Blackbirds and Cuckoos (http://community.livejournal.com/mash_slash/193550.html) - Multi-part, post-war. Hawkeye's institutionalized (unfinished?).
Sleeping Beauty (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mash-slash/message/3855) - Sidney makes an educated guess about Hawkeye and Trapper.
Make Room for Me (http://www.demando.net/mash/makeroom.html) - Radar finds out about Hawk and BJ, and is jealous.
In Case of Emergency (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1230491/1/In_Case_of_Emergency) - BJ confesses to Sidney, sort of.
What You See From Where You're Standing (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1267951/1/What_You_See_From_Where_Youre_Standing) - Potter finds out.
Twenty Years Gone (http://perpet-fic.livejournal.com/185017.html) - Multi-chapter post-war. Peg finds out.
Offer Up Your Last Defense (http://www.demando.net/mash/defense.html) - Post-war. Erin Hunnicutt comes out to her father.
Heaven From Here (http://community.livejournal.com/mash_slash/78562.html) - Multi-chapter, post-war fic. Chapter 3 deals closely with social attitudes.
Everyone's a Stranger (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1592566/1/Everyones_a_Stranger) - George comes back to the 4077th, unsettling BJ.

I also vaguely remember one where Hawk and BJ get together but Hawkeye's unable to stay 'in the closet' as it were and gets attacked or something. Unfortunately I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. If I find it I'll let you know. Enjoy!

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Omg I love you. You're like a reference librarian for fanfic. How would you like a low paying job and a tweed skirt? Failing that, a date?

[underthenameof.livejournal.com]

LOL I've been called a dictionary before, but never a librarian. I'm moving up in the world! XD

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Somewhere in Lspace, there are ROOMS of you.

So, what do you say? You, me, Bach on the hifi, this bottle of reddish "wine"? Meet you in the supply tent at 1600.

[underthenameof.livejournal.com]

Who could resist an offer like that? I'll be there with bells on XD

[aura218.livejournal.com]

*twitters* *brags to motor pool* *takes a bath and puts on best kimono*

[aura218.livejournal.com]

o o I have one to share with you. Macadamanity's tags (http://macadamanaity.livejournal.com/?tag=m*a*s*h) has a bunch of good ones, but "Speak Its Name" (http://macadamanaity.livejournal.com/55008.html#cutid1) has been haunting me all day since I read it last night. set in late 60s/early 70s, Sydney is making a crusade to get homosexuality out of the DSM. BJ meets him at a conference and there's... Talking. ahem. It's fabulously well researched, thoughtful, insightful, pure brilliance.

[macadamanaity.livejournal.com]

::blushes horrifically::

Thank you for the rec!

[underthenameof.livejournal.com]

Ooh, thanks. I hadn't read that one ^_^

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Welc. :D

Ok, I've been sitting on this fic b/c it's not slash and I haven't found any other nonslash comms to talk to people in. But I just have to share it. It's a mostly gen, Buffy x-over, you don't have to know much of the series to enjoy the fic. After the bufffy series, 70+ yo "Dr. Hawk" is living next door to Xander and a bunch of slayers. He sort of gets recruited as a slayer medic. it's told in a series of something like 30 drabbles, 100-150 words, so it moves really fast but packs a ton in each word. It's like a whole season of a tv series stripped down to the bare necesities.

Anyway, you prolly want the link: Shoveling (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5187270/1/Shoveling).

[underthenameof.livejournal.com]

Wow, you're right - it does pack quite a bit in in only a few words. Not exactly two shows I would have thought to put together, but it's well done. Thanks (again) for the link!

[aura218.livejournal.com]

Wow, you read the whole thing already? It was dawn when i got halfway through it, tho it was pretty late when I started...

Buffy fandom is really good with the 100 word fic. Those girls did a lot of drabbles and things like the "dead letter challenge" and "5 things that didn't happen to..." ficathon, and they Maintained Standards. So if it's high concept and a Buffy writer, I give it a looksee.

Were you disappointed at the end? I wanted more. I wanted a second season. :D

[underthenameof.livejournal.com]

LOL no I only got half way yesterday before I had to stop, I just thought it was an great concept.

I've only seen up to season 5 of Buffy so I haven't really ventured into the fandom much so far. I love "5 things..." fics when they're well done, though - I'll have to check it out when I finally finish the series :D

[macadamanaity.livejournal.com]

Wow, thanks for reminding me of so many of my favourites!

[aura218.livejournal.com]

I put this before the group: I've got a bunch of mash slash plot bunnies in my head but no time to write them (have many other projects going at the mo, plus job etc). In this comm, is it kosher to post them as a "plot donation" sort of post?

If not, maybe a link back to my own journal?

Thanks!

[underthenameof.livejournal.com]

You're welcome, lol. Thank you for the many great fics you've written (OMG M*A*S*H/Dr. Who crossover!) XD