This has gone on long enough.

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

Can I just say that you people are being incredible snobs?

-FIRST someone flames someone else for not writing what they consider a "correct" fanfic.

Look, maybe she just wanted to write something for fun, huh? Is that so hard to understand? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this entire thing (M*A*S*H slash) is entirely far fetched to begin with. People write fan fiction as a hobby, as a way to let loose! You know, have a little fun. Though I'm not sure you hard noses even know what fun is, judging from these past few days.

-SECOND the author is understandably upset, because whoever commented on her fic was a great big snob. Author decides to take fics off of oppressive community. And all of a sudden people decide that she is over reacting.

Excuse me, but I think the flamer was overreacting. If the author wants to leave, so what? Who’re you people to judge?


-THIRD some snob decides to write an entire entry detailing the "correct" way to write fanfic. And of course give a little spiel about "taking the newbies under their wings." Who died and made you "oldies" Queen Bitch?

Woah now Professor, heavens forfend the little students decide to do something outside of what you consider to be the "right" way.

To top it all off, you people turn around and laugh over the entire thing, making the author look bad. Like she was the one who was being childish. Personally, I think everyone else was being childish.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

I honestly don’t care what you people think of me for writing this. I needed to say it. I’ve seen this exact same thing happen in many other communities. Somehow I thought this comm. would be better.

*shrugs* Obviously I was wrong.

Some people write fanfic just for fun. So what? What’s wrong with breaking characterization for the sake of creating a light, fluffy story?
I don’t see the harm.

By the way, Author, don’t get mad at me for writing this. I’m fairly sure I’ll have enough angry villagers with torches and pitchforks at my door within minutes of posting this. I’m not doing this to feel better about myself, like I’m some martyr for the under dog. I’m doing this because I believe in standing up for what one believes in.

And I know you people are most likely going to comment with a lot of “Calm down, it’s all in good fun.” Or, “Jesus, cool it, it’s no big deal.” But let me just tell you that I’ve heard it all, and I’m not going to be shut up that easily.


And btw, I read her fic. And I for one, thought it was very well written, very hot, and very “in character.”


Seriously, guys. Give us some breathing room. Don’t nit pick over every little detail. Don’t be a brat just because *gasp* someone wrote Hawkeye slightly out of character. Have a little fun, please.

And maybe I'm not as "eloquent" as some other people, but I don't really care. Whatever you guys wanna say against me, say it. Go on, hit me with your best shot.

Comments

[sharselune.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said.

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

Woah now, I wasn't expecting any thumbs up at all!

[mmorg.livejournal.com]

If you cannot abide by this you are truly lost.

[boomc98.livejournal.com]

That is one funky-looking Squidward in your icon.

[minttown1.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

*bows*

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

All in a day's work, my friend!

[boomc98.livejournal.com]

Damn. When a fandom wakes up, it WAKES UP.

Whoa baby...

Nice icon!

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

You bet yer ass, babe ; )

[subluxate]

I'm so past even debating whether the comments were flames, because there's no way to look at them any longer and say, "Yeah, they were," or, "No, that was harsh, but not a flame." That accusation keeps being bandied about, and for one, I think it should be dropped, because there's no way to look back at the actual comments.

Yes, I (along with others) was not encouraging. Yes, I was probably too harsh. I've e-mailed the author in question separately, and intend to do so again later. I don't know that any of the recent ranty posts were called for, but clearly, some people think they were. I'm sorry it got to this point.

[(Anonymous)]

Whether they were flames is hardly the only issue here. There's also the question of whether everything posted really is open to criticism. This community assumes that everything is. Etiquette many other places is that fanworks are shared so that they may be enjoyed, not fixed.

Working from blind faith...

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I am not even sure I know all the shit that went down. I just thought that people were being waaay too overbearing in their judgement. I'll drop the "flaming" thing, but I still think that they were being snobs *shrugs*

Woah now, was this a mean email, or a coming to terms email? Let's try to play nice, now.

I'll even admit that this post was a little bit maybe uncalled for, but I stand by everything I said.

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

Sure there is. I still have some of them saved in my files - because while most of the stuff was harsh criticism...there was some worthwhile information given in some of them. I won't say who posted what...but I can leave it open for debate. Believe me, I don't want to get this started again, and yes HC...we have emailed privately and I appreciate it a lot. I have also emailed with one of the others (maybe both, I'm not sure because of the different user names). I guess I just want you guys to understand that you really hurt my feelings and I think that's why SP made this post (and of course I'm not mad at you SP!):



1)You know what? At first, when you started posting here, I liked you. Now, however....

I know, I know, you asked for constructive critisism, I'll try...

>.Please don't continue to the story if you don't enjoy reading fics that are written purely for fun and without regard to sticking to canon or characterization. Warning: Somewhat AU and very OCC (especially BJ in later sections) - please don’t read if you don’t like that kind of thing.,<

Now, I'm not even sure I can be constructive about this.
Serious writers strive to avoid OOC-ness. That's the point of fanfic. Fanfic. We are fans

wikipedia.org: The word fan refers to someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking of a person, group of persons, work of art, idea, or trend.

We like, heck, even love this show (and the movie and the books)!! Loving it means striving to avoid OOC-ness, striving to make characterization good, and striving to stick as much as possible to canon, the promoted pairings excepted. You can't just disregard that. If the only thing your characters have in common with the M*A*S*H characters, is that they are in Korea, you could just as well write original fiction and place the characters in Korea, if that is at all vital to your story. If you don't strive to make the characterisation spot-on, what's the point in writing about characters that already exist?

Let me make one thing very, very clear. No one likes characters that are OOC (except for you and some of you newbie friends, apparently). Why not try to make them in character instead? Then maybe someone besides newbies would be bothered to read it. The way it is now, it sounds like you're somehow proud that the characters in your fic are OOC.

You say you write this for fun. Well, sorry, that doesn't help. Why you don't care about canon and characterisation, I don't know. But I think you should. The rest of us do. Because we are fans. Because we love M*A*S*H. And because we understand the initial concept, the essence, of fanfic; creating stories that are in symbiosis and in "understanding" (for lack of a better word) with the show, the movie, the book, in short: the work of art, that we know and love, no matter what it may be.

I'm sorry if I've come across as harsh, but what you wrote in the headers really, really pisses me off. I don't see how you can really be a fan, and still talk like that. If this really is your attitude towards the fic you write, I know I won't read another word you write.

~continued next post~

[sarcasticsra]

1. We all write fanfic for fun. That's a given. None of us are making any money off of it because that'd be infringing on copyright. Some people, like myself, however, take pride in everything they write, fanfiction, original fiction, papers, essays, whatever. They want it to be as good as it can be. If someone wants to post a fic full of errors or poor characterization, they can be my guest -- but don't expect everyone to love it.

2. I've talked to the author in question via email. She admits that she overreacted some. She also admits that, when someone actually gave her good constructive criticism, she flew off the handle too quickly instead of calming down and responding more sanely. Personally, my entire bone of contention with her was that she was claiming to be bashed when in fact she instigated a lot of it. I'm past it, though. If she wants to leave, she's free to leave, of course. I just think it's unfortunate because she had some great potential.

3. I just read the post in question and while it may come across as somewhat condescending, she does make some very good points. And the author you’re defending has actually commented on the story in agreement with part of it. Actually, now that she seems to have calmed down, she is acting very reasonable. She seems to realize that she made some mistakes (And yes, I will admit, the criticisms on some of her stories were harsh. I just didn’t see it as a flame. A flame is a personal attack. A comment basically ripping a story to shreds, while needlessly vitriolic, is technically not a flame. It does make taking the criticism to heart harder, though, I agree.) so I’m confused. What is the point of this post? The person you’re defending seems to be over it. That’s bizarre.

I’ll tell you the same thing I told her: we’re spoiled. We’re used to exceptional writers who are gods at characterization, and when we see people blatantly disregarding it, we get annoyed more easily because we’re so used to awesome stories.

Incidentally, it seems as all this wank has woken up the fandom a little bit. That is so ironic.

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* I just think that people need to lighten up some. Hell, we're not writing to be published! Maybe I have a different view of fandoms than you (God forbid), what's wrong with that? I think that fandoms are for fun. You think it's a little more serious than that.

You might think I'm some teeny-bopper "newbie" that doesn't respect the sanctity of fandom. I might think you're a stuffy old fashioned person who's too stuck in their ways.

(You say tomota, I say tomato, let's call the whole thing off!)

Also, in a fandom like M*A*S*H, I just thought people would be a little more light hearted and less serious about shit like this.

And besides, as I said before, I'm not doing this for her. I'm doing it for me. Ehm-ee, ME.

*grins* Oh, I've been known to shake things up a little bit here and there.

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

>>Some people, like myself, however, take pride in everything they write, fanfiction, original fiction, papers, essays, whatever. They want it to be as good as it can be. If someone wants to post a fic full of errors or poor characterization, they can be my guest -- but don't expect everyone to love it.<<

I do take pride in my work. Even in the crappy stuff. You want to know why? Because I put some effort into something other than sitting on my over-sized-really-could-use-some-time-at-the-gym butt watching more Oprah.

>>I've talked to the author in question via email. She admits that she overreacted some. She also admits that, when someone actually gave her good constructive criticism, she flew off the handle too quickly instead of calming down and responding more sanely. Personally, my entire bone of contention with her was that she was claiming to be bashed when in fact she instigated a lot of it.<<

Yes, we have talked via email. And yes, I did overreact a bit to some of the stuff. I wouldn't say that any of it was "good" constructive crit...it was useful, but still a bit harsh. Some was borderline mean. I didn't instigate...I reacted poorly and I regret it.

>>If she wants to leave, she's free to leave, of course. I just think it's unfortunate because she had some great potential.<<

I obviously haven't left. I may post a fic again, but it will never ever be something funny. It will be my angsty stuff. Thank you though for the compliment. The old fics will be on mash_fic...so feel free to go there and read them if you choose.

>>What is the point of this post? The person you’re defending seems to be over it.<<

I am definitely not over it. I am now completely terrified and intimidated to post my fanfiction anywhere..except for the yahoo group. I'm even scared to post it on mash_fic. So, no...I am not over it. I'm just more excepting of it.

And if you don't mind me asking...what is "wank"? I am clueless here.

Here you go!

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/mash_fic/7028.html#cutid1

Here's the link to the one fic I reposted to mash_fic. It's what I consider to be one of my better ones. I may regret it, but there you go.

[gal-montag.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the fic in question, but it really bugs me that fanfiction is the only hobby in the world that people do "just for fun" and don't feel like they have to put any effort into it and that anyone who does takes it too seriously. This isn't directed at the author or you in particular, but that assertation really sticks in my craw.

If you wanna write OOC, be my guest, but let people know, some of us like Hawkeye the way he is. If you don't want con-crit, say so. When you post in a public forum, especially for a fandom like MASH, which has been around for longer than I've been alive, you're going to have to expect and accept nit-pickers and con-crit. That's how some fandoms are. You deal with it or you don't.

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

*sigh* The thing is...I did let people know. That's my main point of contention. Don't like it...don't read it.

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

SHE DID LET THEM KNOW!

[qzee.livejournal.com]

um... I know a lot of people who knit just for fun, paint pictures/draw just for fun, and the like so fanfiction is not the only hobby in the world that people do just for fun. Though, most people do hope they will improve in their hobby once they get a bit more practice with it.

[canpin.livejournal.com]

what a way to bring back the community...

i must admit that i stirred the shit a little- for this i am sorry. unfortunately, it's a bit hard to display tongue in the cheek humour, over the internet- [especially when it's in words only], so anything i may have said may have seemed a little...rude? for this, i apologise....

but it's just how i see this community- something that can be used for fun. so i agree with what you're saying, more or less. thank you for this

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

>>i must admit that i stirred the shit a little- for this i am sorry. <<

Thank you for this because when I went to mash_slash and saw your fic posted...I was really excited to read it...until I saw your header. It really offended me (because I know it was a direct poke at me) so I didn't read your fic.

[snarkywolf.livejournal.com]

*waves a white flag*

No offense to anyone, but you all gave me a headache. I think it's best that everyone, as xcacophony said, 'agrees to disagree'. Everyone has their own side, everyone believes in their own side and no one will change anyone's opinions of their side.

Personally, I'm glad the author got this sort of reaction. You all woke up! And I think I speak for the other luckers when I say I hope you'll all stay wake for a little longer. Go watch the Hallmark Channel, your Dvds, your whatevers and come back into the fandom. Let's see these LJs filled with fics, artwork, and icons again. :)

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

'agrees to disagree'. Everyone has their own side, everyone believes in their own side and no one will change anyone's opinions of their side.

Yeah, I actually couldn't agree more. And I hate to start something and then back off suddenly because I got "tired" of it. But to be honest, I really just wanna read M*A*S*H fics right now! *whines*

Actually...I for one don't understand why people seem to think this comm. was dormant at all. I mean, when I searched for "M*A*S*H slash" on this site, I didn't expect anything to come up. Sure I only found one comm., but it seems to me that this one comm. has been very active!

[smithy161.livejournal.com]

Jumping in a little later here (the perils of living in a different time zone) but I just wanted to lend my support to Murf. I've been the beta for X-rated, and I've enjoyed it a hell of a lot.
There's one thing I wanted to add: the fact that the fic X-Rated, which got slated for being AU, was no more so than tv series to start with, because guess what? BJ never originally existed in the book or movie. As fanfic writers, we can more or less do what we want with him, because he's AU to begin with.

I think I read this in my mash slash mailing list digest last night...

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

BJ never originally existed in the book or movie. As fanfic writers, we can more or less do what we want with him, because he's AU to begin with.

Could NOT agree more, omg.

[mapetitemort.livejournal.com]

Jeez people, fan fic is for fun. The F also stands for fun, really!

So maybe she overreacted a bit, she did admit and there's no need to start flaming because someone stated his/her opinion. Gah, criticism is normal and let me tell you, literary criticism can be a lot worse as it can actually ruin someone's career.

This is not professional writing, okay?

I kept telling myself to ignore the situation but here I go anyway...

Abyssinia

So that's what it stands for...

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

I understand that crit is normal, and my point really wasn't to yell at people for "flaming." Regardless of if they were or not.

My point was to try to tell people that yeah, it's ok to have fun with fanfiction!

[kabukiziggy.livejournal.com]

ok i guess i havent read the fan fic everyone is talking about but i know my side on this matter. Some people need to lighten up. Enough said. "If you have nothing good to say dont say it at all", thats not a cliche for nothing you know. Some people are not born writers but that doesnt mean they should never write anything at all, and we all dont come out of our mothers womb writing like steven king now do we?