This has gone on long enough.

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

Can I just say that you people are being incredible snobs?

-FIRST someone flames someone else for not writing what they consider a "correct" fanfic.

Look, maybe she just wanted to write something for fun, huh? Is that so hard to understand? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this entire thing (M*A*S*H slash) is entirely far fetched to begin with. People write fan fiction as a hobby, as a way to let loose! You know, have a little fun. Though I'm not sure you hard noses even know what fun is, judging from these past few days.

-SECOND the author is understandably upset, because whoever commented on her fic was a great big snob. Author decides to take fics off of oppressive community. And all of a sudden people decide that she is over reacting.

Excuse me, but I think the flamer was overreacting. If the author wants to leave, so what? Who’re you people to judge?


-THIRD some snob decides to write an entire entry detailing the "correct" way to write fanfic. And of course give a little spiel about "taking the newbies under their wings." Who died and made you "oldies" Queen Bitch?

Woah now Professor, heavens forfend the little students decide to do something outside of what you consider to be the "right" way.

To top it all off, you people turn around and laugh over the entire thing, making the author look bad. Like she was the one who was being childish. Personally, I think everyone else was being childish.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

I honestly don’t care what you people think of me for writing this. I needed to say it. I’ve seen this exact same thing happen in many other communities. Somehow I thought this comm. would be better.

*shrugs* Obviously I was wrong.

Some people write fanfic just for fun. So what? What’s wrong with breaking characterization for the sake of creating a light, fluffy story?
I don’t see the harm.

By the way, Author, don’t get mad at me for writing this. I’m fairly sure I’ll have enough angry villagers with torches and pitchforks at my door within minutes of posting this. I’m not doing this to feel better about myself, like I’m some martyr for the under dog. I’m doing this because I believe in standing up for what one believes in.

And I know you people are most likely going to comment with a lot of “Calm down, it’s all in good fun.” Or, “Jesus, cool it, it’s no big deal.” But let me just tell you that I’ve heard it all, and I’m not going to be shut up that easily.


And btw, I read her fic. And I for one, thought it was very well written, very hot, and very “in character.”


Seriously, guys. Give us some breathing room. Don’t nit pick over every little detail. Don’t be a brat just because *gasp* someone wrote Hawkeye slightly out of character. Have a little fun, please.

And maybe I'm not as "eloquent" as some other people, but I don't really care. Whatever you guys wanna say against me, say it. Go on, hit me with your best shot.

Comments

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

Sure there is. I still have some of them saved in my files - because while most of the stuff was harsh criticism...there was some worthwhile information given in some of them. I won't say who posted what...but I can leave it open for debate. Believe me, I don't want to get this started again, and yes HC...we have emailed privately and I appreciate it a lot. I have also emailed with one of the others (maybe both, I'm not sure because of the different user names). I guess I just want you guys to understand that you really hurt my feelings and I think that's why SP made this post (and of course I'm not mad at you SP!):



1)You know what? At first, when you started posting here, I liked you. Now, however....

I know, I know, you asked for constructive critisism, I'll try...

>.Please don't continue to the story if you don't enjoy reading fics that are written purely for fun and without regard to sticking to canon or characterization. Warning: Somewhat AU and very OCC (especially BJ in later sections) - please don’t read if you don’t like that kind of thing.,<

Now, I'm not even sure I can be constructive about this.
Serious writers strive to avoid OOC-ness. That's the point of fanfic. Fanfic. We are fans

wikipedia.org: The word fan refers to someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking of a person, group of persons, work of art, idea, or trend.

We like, heck, even love this show (and the movie and the books)!! Loving it means striving to avoid OOC-ness, striving to make characterization good, and striving to stick as much as possible to canon, the promoted pairings excepted. You can't just disregard that. If the only thing your characters have in common with the M*A*S*H characters, is that they are in Korea, you could just as well write original fiction and place the characters in Korea, if that is at all vital to your story. If you don't strive to make the characterisation spot-on, what's the point in writing about characters that already exist?

Let me make one thing very, very clear. No one likes characters that are OOC (except for you and some of you newbie friends, apparently). Why not try to make them in character instead? Then maybe someone besides newbies would be bothered to read it. The way it is now, it sounds like you're somehow proud that the characters in your fic are OOC.

You say you write this for fun. Well, sorry, that doesn't help. Why you don't care about canon and characterisation, I don't know. But I think you should. The rest of us do. Because we are fans. Because we love M*A*S*H. And because we understand the initial concept, the essence, of fanfic; creating stories that are in symbiosis and in "understanding" (for lack of a better word) with the show, the movie, the book, in short: the work of art, that we know and love, no matter what it may be.

I'm sorry if I've come across as harsh, but what you wrote in the headers really, really pisses me off. I don't see how you can really be a fan, and still talk like that. If this really is your attitude towards the fic you write, I know I won't read another word you write.

~continued next post~

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

~Here's the rest~

2) "What I really want to know is how I, Hawkeye Pierce, chief surgeon, got stuck with playing chauffer to the new guy?"

So do I. HQ would not send Pierce to pick up anyone, and certainly not under the cicumstances you've set up. The only reason why Hawkeye picks up BJ at all is because he defied orders to try and catch Trapper.

>Christ...if this BJ kid got any gay in him, Trapper will find it. And will eat him alive.<

Hawkeye and Trapper are cannonically straight. I'm a slasher myself, but there is no way I believe Hawkeye would think this. It sounds like something from QAF, not MASH. Even if we all know in our hearts that Hawkeye is as gay as sunshine, plot development is required to make the premise believeable.

Here's the problem all writers face with AU. In order for die hard fans (i.e. people who write fanfiction) to be interested in AU, you've got to convice them your version is as good as or better than cannon. You've got to go back and re-write every incident so that people who know the fandom inside out can look at your fanfiction and say; "Yeah, this could happen." What you've done is said things-in-cannon-didn't-happen-like-this-because-I said-so. Oh and FYI, everyone is gay. I'm sorry, but if you want to write a good fanfiction, that isn't going to cut it.

In Review...

Plot development = 2 Minimal and weak

Characterization = 0 None of your characters strike me as being characters from the show. Change around some names and places and this could be a Harry Potter fanfiction or a Star Trek fanfiction.

Grammar = 4 Nothing jumped out at me, and on closer inspection I found only one or two missplaced commas. I can't vouch for spelling, however, because I'm terrible.

Random Gayness = 10 Just because this is a slash community does not mean you can point a finger and go "Poof! Instant gay!".

Should you continue = Not like this. The whole premise of Hawkeye, BJ, and Trapper existing at the 4077th at the same time isn't all that common of a plot line, so there's definitely merit in writing the fic. You've just got to clean it up a lot.

**********************

(And if the person who posted this one is reading - and hopefully you are...once I reread it...I realized that you had some very valid points and I did make many changes because of you. The fic is better...though probably still not up to some people's standards.)

I can't find the third and fourth ones (which, by the way, were by far the most insensitive)...probably because I didn't think there was any value in anything that was said. I know that the FBer left very very negative comments for two of my fics though...not only the most protested one.

Anyway...feel free to debate.

[sarcasticsra]

The first one I didn't see, but yes, that one does cross over into the personal arena and could be considered a flame. She does make a couple good points, but is needlessly acerbic and I understand why you felt attacked.

The second one, however, I don't believe is a flame at all. It's very harsh, but the only she criticises is the story, not you. It's rather blunt, yes, but not defamatory.

All in all, these two were not close to what I would consider 'bashing'. I've gotten true flames before, where I was called every name under the sun, my intelligence and personal appearance were insulted, everything (the the person writing the flame couldn't spell or capitalize, though, so I wasn't too crushed) and even I don't find that bashing. Bashing, to me, is when a few people or a larger group constantly make belittling remarks about your person over an extended period of time. Three or four harsh reviews on a fic that might have gotten a little nasty just doesn't cut it for me. Everyone else has at least been more or less polite. (I know I have attempted to be so.)

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

I agree with you completely. I was wrong to say that I was flamed and/or bashed...I wasn't.

But they were very harsh. Especially the second one. That is the one that made me delete all of my fics. And the first one...that's the one that I saved specifically because I *knew* there was worthwhile crit in it. I guess if it had been me, I would've been nicer about it.

And I have gotten a ton of negative remarks on my G/C stuff from CSI. But I know that there have been many specific cases of FB trolls in that fandom who ream everyone just because they have nothing better to do.

[sarcasticsra]

They were definitely harsh. I'm totally not debating that. I know you wish they'd have been nicer but a lot of us, myself included, have a hard time sugar-coating our words at all. I try to remain cordial when I am irritated with someone (you and I, in my mind, are more or less cool, now, or at least I hope so -- you seem much more reasonable and likable when you calm down, FYI) but, by nature, I am a sarcastic, smart ass. It sometimes just happens without my persmission. =P

Oh, the CSI fandom. Don't get me started. It's full of mediocre talent and bitchy fangirls. People there flame just because they don't like your pairing, which is one of the things that annoys me a lot. I never understood why people don't skip pairings they don't like. Flaming the author is not going to make them go away. It especially strikes me as annoying in that fandom because, like I said, I'll write anything. There is one pairing I don't really see as is, but I'm sure someone out there could manage to make it IC enough that I would enjoy it. (Aside from N/S being sibling-esque, though, I am utterly convinced that Nick is a bonafide closet case. *g*)

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

>>Oh, the CSI fandom. Don't get me started. It's full of mediocre talent and bitchy fangirls. People there flame just because they don't like your pairing, which is one of the things that annoys me a lot. I never understood why people don't skip pairings they don't like. Flaming the author is not going to make them go away.<<

This is why I don't write CSI any more. The S/G fangirls (and I don't have anything against people who like S/G or who write S/G) were coming after the C/G fics like hungry sharks and flaming everyone who wrote anything other than S/G. The funny thing is, even though S/G is the on pairing I cannot stand, I have read some fics that were very good. Though usually I avoid them (unless written by a few specific people), I would never think to go and read one with the specific purpose of ripping the author. Maybe it's because there are a lot of very VERY young CSI fans.

[sarcasticsra]

I'm not extremely fond of S/G myself (I assume you mean Sara/Grissom) but I write short angsty ficlets because I enjoy angst and they are so easy to make angsty. Yes, I think people have nothing better to do than flame authors just because they don't happen to like the pairing. I don't know if it's necessarily age (I know people younger than me who act more mature than some thirty year olds I know) but it's definitely a lack of maturity.

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

>>I assume you mean Sara/Grissom<<

Yes. That's exactly who I meant.

>> they are so easy to make angsty. <

I am in total agreement with you here. When love is unrequited, the angst factor jumps exponentially. And this situation fits that description perfectly. I see Sara as having this huge - crush is too small of a word and infatuation isn't strong enough either - something on Grissom. And he sees her as something less-than-a-romantic-option. More like a daughter or a student. *shrugs* Maybe I'm wrong, but that's definitely what I see.

>>I don't know if it's necessarily age (I know people younger than me who act more mature than some thirty year olds I know) but it's definitely a lack of maturity.<<

Truer words have never been spoken. My brother-in-law is 34 and acts like he's a 21 year old combing the bars for hot chicks - specifically to get laid. ICK! Yet my 18 year old nephew acts like he's in his late 30's. He's a freshman at Bradley and already has his future planned out.

I don't even have lunch planned out for today...

[sarcasticsra]

When love is unrequited, the angst factor jumps exponentially. And this situation fits that description perfectly. I see Sara as having this huge - crush is too small of a word and infatuation isn't strong enough either - something on Grissom. And he sees her as something less-than-a-romantic-option.

Yes! That is exactly how I see their relationship. To top it off, Sara intimidates Grissom and Grissom confuses Sara. Confusion and intimidation were never wonderful foundations for a relationship. (Sara annoys me sometimes. Bah.)