This has gone on long enough.

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

Can I just say that you people are being incredible snobs?

-FIRST someone flames someone else for not writing what they consider a "correct" fanfic.

Look, maybe she just wanted to write something for fun, huh? Is that so hard to understand? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this entire thing (M*A*S*H slash) is entirely far fetched to begin with. People write fan fiction as a hobby, as a way to let loose! You know, have a little fun. Though I'm not sure you hard noses even know what fun is, judging from these past few days.

-SECOND the author is understandably upset, because whoever commented on her fic was a great big snob. Author decides to take fics off of oppressive community. And all of a sudden people decide that she is over reacting.

Excuse me, but I think the flamer was overreacting. If the author wants to leave, so what? Who’re you people to judge?


-THIRD some snob decides to write an entire entry detailing the "correct" way to write fanfic. And of course give a little spiel about "taking the newbies under their wings." Who died and made you "oldies" Queen Bitch?

Woah now Professor, heavens forfend the little students decide to do something outside of what you consider to be the "right" way.

To top it all off, you people turn around and laugh over the entire thing, making the author look bad. Like she was the one who was being childish. Personally, I think everyone else was being childish.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

I honestly don’t care what you people think of me for writing this. I needed to say it. I’ve seen this exact same thing happen in many other communities. Somehow I thought this comm. would be better.

*shrugs* Obviously I was wrong.

Some people write fanfic just for fun. So what? What’s wrong with breaking characterization for the sake of creating a light, fluffy story?
I don’t see the harm.

By the way, Author, don’t get mad at me for writing this. I’m fairly sure I’ll have enough angry villagers with torches and pitchforks at my door within minutes of posting this. I’m not doing this to feel better about myself, like I’m some martyr for the under dog. I’m doing this because I believe in standing up for what one believes in.

And I know you people are most likely going to comment with a lot of “Calm down, it’s all in good fun.” Or, “Jesus, cool it, it’s no big deal.” But let me just tell you that I’ve heard it all, and I’m not going to be shut up that easily.


And btw, I read her fic. And I for one, thought it was very well written, very hot, and very “in character.”


Seriously, guys. Give us some breathing room. Don’t nit pick over every little detail. Don’t be a brat just because *gasp* someone wrote Hawkeye slightly out of character. Have a little fun, please.

And maybe I'm not as "eloquent" as some other people, but I don't really care. Whatever you guys wanna say against me, say it. Go on, hit me with your best shot.

Comments

[sharselune.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said.

[mmorg.livejournal.com]

If you cannot abide by this you are truly lost.

[minttown1.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[boomc98.livejournal.com]

Damn. When a fandom wakes up, it WAKES UP.

Whoa baby...

[boomc98.livejournal.com]

That is one funky-looking Squidward in your icon.

[subluxate]

I'm so past even debating whether the comments were flames, because there's no way to look at them any longer and say, "Yeah, they were," or, "No, that was harsh, but not a flame." That accusation keeps being bandied about, and for one, I think it should be dropped, because there's no way to look back at the actual comments.

Yes, I (along with others) was not encouraging. Yes, I was probably too harsh. I've e-mailed the author in question separately, and intend to do so again later. I don't know that any of the recent ranty posts were called for, but clearly, some people think they were. I'm sorry it got to this point.

Nice icon!

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

You bet yer ass, babe ; )

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

Woah now, I wasn't expecting any thumbs up at all!

[mmorg.livejournal.com]

It's a lounge lizard that plays shufflepuck. It's pretty drunk.

And I just realized that I'm not a part of this community.

What the hell am I doing here???

*bows*

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

All in a day's work, my friend!

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

XDXD You are so my bitch *dying*

[(Anonymous)]

Whether they were flames is hardly the only issue here. There's also the question of whether everything posted really is open to criticism. This community assumes that everything is. Etiquette many other places is that fanworks are shared so that they may be enjoyed, not fixed.

Working from blind faith...

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I am not even sure I know all the shit that went down. I just thought that people were being waaay too overbearing in their judgement. I'll drop the "flaming" thing, but I still think that they were being snobs *shrugs*

Woah now, was this a mean email, or a coming to terms email? Let's try to play nice, now.

I'll even admit that this post was a little bit maybe uncalled for, but I stand by everything I said.

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

Fer sure, yo.

Re: Working from blind faith...

[subluxate]

Snobs, sure. Some of us were spoiled by the authors still active when we came into the fandom, and we hold ourselves--and others--to very high standards. I've been known to mock myself for my snobbery, especially in the House fandom.

A coming to terms e-mail, and that's all I'll say about it.

[subluxate]

When posting to a public forum, one should expect criticism, not simply accolades. I, and some others, don't sugarcoat our opinions (which I won't apologize for). If someone is not ready for blunt opinions--positive or negative--that person shouldn't post for a lot of others to read. Whether or not people like it, that's how it sometimes works.

Re: Working from blind faith...

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* Just give people a little creative space. That's all I really want. Sure, have standards, but don't look down your nose at people.

Thank you, that's all I need to know.

[siriusly-punk.livejournal.com]

Eeeh..I have to also agree with your point. However! Would it kill ya to be a little I dunno..nicer about it? Like, I'm not asking you to change your personality completely (People have tried to get me to do that, so I won't do it to others) just to ease up a little. Constructive critisism is good, great even, but not cold hearted "flaming."

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

Sure there is. I still have some of them saved in my files - because while most of the stuff was harsh criticism...there was some worthwhile information given in some of them. I won't say who posted what...but I can leave it open for debate. Believe me, I don't want to get this started again, and yes HC...we have emailed privately and I appreciate it a lot. I have also emailed with one of the others (maybe both, I'm not sure because of the different user names). I guess I just want you guys to understand that you really hurt my feelings and I think that's why SP made this post (and of course I'm not mad at you SP!):



1)You know what? At first, when you started posting here, I liked you. Now, however....

I know, I know, you asked for constructive critisism, I'll try...

>.Please don't continue to the story if you don't enjoy reading fics that are written purely for fun and without regard to sticking to canon or characterization. Warning: Somewhat AU and very OCC (especially BJ in later sections) - please don’t read if you don’t like that kind of thing.,<

Now, I'm not even sure I can be constructive about this.
Serious writers strive to avoid OOC-ness. That's the point of fanfic. Fanfic. We are fans

wikipedia.org: The word fan refers to someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking of a person, group of persons, work of art, idea, or trend.

We like, heck, even love this show (and the movie and the books)!! Loving it means striving to avoid OOC-ness, striving to make characterization good, and striving to stick as much as possible to canon, the promoted pairings excepted. You can't just disregard that. If the only thing your characters have in common with the M*A*S*H characters, is that they are in Korea, you could just as well write original fiction and place the characters in Korea, if that is at all vital to your story. If you don't strive to make the characterisation spot-on, what's the point in writing about characters that already exist?

Let me make one thing very, very clear. No one likes characters that are OOC (except for you and some of you newbie friends, apparently). Why not try to make them in character instead? Then maybe someone besides newbies would be bothered to read it. The way it is now, it sounds like you're somehow proud that the characters in your fic are OOC.

You say you write this for fun. Well, sorry, that doesn't help. Why you don't care about canon and characterisation, I don't know. But I think you should. The rest of us do. Because we are fans. Because we love M*A*S*H. And because we understand the initial concept, the essence, of fanfic; creating stories that are in symbiosis and in "understanding" (for lack of a better word) with the show, the movie, the book, in short: the work of art, that we know and love, no matter what it may be.

I'm sorry if I've come across as harsh, but what you wrote in the headers really, really pisses me off. I don't see how you can really be a fan, and still talk like that. If this really is your attitude towards the fic you write, I know I won't read another word you write.

~continued next post~

[sarcasticsra]

1. We all write fanfic for fun. That's a given. None of us are making any money off of it because that'd be infringing on copyright. Some people, like myself, however, take pride in everything they write, fanfiction, original fiction, papers, essays, whatever. They want it to be as good as it can be. If someone wants to post a fic full of errors or poor characterization, they can be my guest -- but don't expect everyone to love it.

2. I've talked to the author in question via email. She admits that she overreacted some. She also admits that, when someone actually gave her good constructive criticism, she flew off the handle too quickly instead of calming down and responding more sanely. Personally, my entire bone of contention with her was that she was claiming to be bashed when in fact she instigated a lot of it. I'm past it, though. If she wants to leave, she's free to leave, of course. I just think it's unfortunate because she had some great potential.

3. I just read the post in question and while it may come across as somewhat condescending, she does make some very good points. And the author you’re defending has actually commented on the story in agreement with part of it. Actually, now that she seems to have calmed down, she is acting very reasonable. She seems to realize that she made some mistakes (And yes, I will admit, the criticisms on some of her stories were harsh. I just didn’t see it as a flame. A flame is a personal attack. A comment basically ripping a story to shreds, while needlessly vitriolic, is technically not a flame. It does make taking the criticism to heart harder, though, I agree.) so I’m confused. What is the point of this post? The person you’re defending seems to be over it. That’s bizarre.

I’ll tell you the same thing I told her: we’re spoiled. We’re used to exceptional writers who are gods at characterization, and when we see people blatantly disregarding it, we get annoyed more easily because we’re so used to awesome stories.

Incidentally, it seems as all this wank has woken up the fandom a little bit. That is so ironic.

[gal-montag.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the fic in question, but it really bugs me that fanfiction is the only hobby in the world that people do "just for fun" and don't feel like they have to put any effort into it and that anyone who does takes it too seriously. This isn't directed at the author or you in particular, but that assertation really sticks in my craw.

If you wanna write OOC, be my guest, but let people know, some of us like Hawkeye the way he is. If you don't want con-crit, say so. When you post in a public forum, especially for a fandom like MASH, which has been around for longer than I've been alive, you're going to have to expect and accept nit-pickers and con-crit. That's how some fandoms are. You deal with it or you don't.

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

~Here's the rest~

2) "What I really want to know is how I, Hawkeye Pierce, chief surgeon, got stuck with playing chauffer to the new guy?"

So do I. HQ would not send Pierce to pick up anyone, and certainly not under the cicumstances you've set up. The only reason why Hawkeye picks up BJ at all is because he defied orders to try and catch Trapper.

>Christ...if this BJ kid got any gay in him, Trapper will find it. And will eat him alive.<

Hawkeye and Trapper are cannonically straight. I'm a slasher myself, but there is no way I believe Hawkeye would think this. It sounds like something from QAF, not MASH. Even if we all know in our hearts that Hawkeye is as gay as sunshine, plot development is required to make the premise believeable.

Here's the problem all writers face with AU. In order for die hard fans (i.e. people who write fanfiction) to be interested in AU, you've got to convice them your version is as good as or better than cannon. You've got to go back and re-write every incident so that people who know the fandom inside out can look at your fanfiction and say; "Yeah, this could happen." What you've done is said things-in-cannon-didn't-happen-like-this-because-I said-so. Oh and FYI, everyone is gay. I'm sorry, but if you want to write a good fanfiction, that isn't going to cut it.

In Review...

Plot development = 2 Minimal and weak

Characterization = 0 None of your characters strike me as being characters from the show. Change around some names and places and this could be a Harry Potter fanfiction or a Star Trek fanfiction.

Grammar = 4 Nothing jumped out at me, and on closer inspection I found only one or two missplaced commas. I can't vouch for spelling, however, because I'm terrible.

Random Gayness = 10 Just because this is a slash community does not mean you can point a finger and go "Poof! Instant gay!".

Should you continue = Not like this. The whole premise of Hawkeye, BJ, and Trapper existing at the 4077th at the same time isn't all that common of a plot line, so there's definitely merit in writing the fic. You've just got to clean it up a lot.

**********************

(And if the person who posted this one is reading - and hopefully you are...once I reread it...I realized that you had some very valid points and I did make many changes because of you. The fic is better...though probably still not up to some people's standards.)

I can't find the third and fourth ones (which, by the way, were by far the most insensitive)...probably because I didn't think there was any value in anything that was said. I know that the FBer left very very negative comments for two of my fics though...not only the most protested one.

Anyway...feel free to debate.

Re: Nice icon!

[boomc98.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Can't bet my ass, though. Too uncomfy to sit that way.

[murf1013.livejournal.com]

*sigh* The thing is...I did let people know. That's my main point of contention. Don't like it...don't read it.

[boomc98.livejournal.com]

Hey, drink up! Enjoy the party!